ABC Afternoon Briefing
11 February 2026
STARTS
STEPHANIE BORYS:
Liberal MP Ben Small is a conservative who had previously backed Andrew Hastie as a potential new leader and he joins me now. Ben Small, thank you for your time on Afternoon Briefing.
BEN SMALL MP:
Thanks for having me Steph.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
As I said, you did declare yourself a backer of Andrew Hastie, so who are you backing now?
BEN SMALL MP:
Well, look, until we've got a declared contest, it's hard to pick a horse to back, but my very strong view that I developed over the summer spending time in my own community was that people are disappointed with the Liberal Party and its offering in recent times and I think they're looking for generational change for us to become relevant to the needs and aspirations of middle Australia once more. I mean it's where we have been very successful in the past. It's how you win elections in this country and provide good government. So that's really what motivated my support for Andrew Hastie. I think he brought that to the table. He's decided it's not his time. And of course, I support that in any colleague who decides not to put their hand up after having tested the waters with colleagues, because that's appropriate. And so, look, we live in interesting times and like you and your viewers and all of the media here today, we're waiting to see what happens.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
Are you part of the conversations that are going on?
BEN SMALL MP:
I think every person in this building is part of the conversation. Certainly, even getting a coffee down at the coffee cart this morning, there was chat in the line about what's going on.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
But with your colleagues?
BEN SMALL MP:
Of course. I mean, I think it's natural when a party is not doing as well as it ought to that colleagues have conversations about what needs to change. And that's broader than just the leadership question I have to say. I think that we would be failing Australians if we simply pretended to be one nation just as we fail Australians when we pretend to be the Labor Party. The Liberal Party as a party steeped in a tradition of believing in freedom, lower taxes, smaller government, home ownership, and backing individual reward for effort, has a lot to offer in this country, and it's up to us to articulate that in a way that resonates with modern Australia.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
Given you were backing Andrew Hastie, is that a clear indication that you want the Liberal Party to move more to the right?
BEN SMALL MP:
No, I don't think that's right. In fact, I think it's lazy commentary for people to suggest that we need to lurch one way or the other. The Australians that I meet in the community don't think about these things in terms of a linear left-right spectrum. Australians are more complicated than that.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
But you do it in a party. In the end, when you're voting someone in, it is about factions. It is about moderates. It is about conservatives?
BEN SMALL MP:
Well, the Liberal Party doesn't really have factions.
I think that's long been the case. We don't line up like robots in the left and the right like you do in the Labor Party and that's why the media have such a hard time putting us into columns because Liberal MPs tend to be very free thinking. We have our own views about things, and I mean I expressed that last week in crossing the floor so to speak to support an amendment that I thought was very sensible in supporting a freeze on excise for spirits. My electorate in the south-west corner of WA is home to a great many distillers and craft brewers and, of course, great wines. So, alcohol tax is relevant. And, you know, we stand up for our communities. We don't follow orders like the Labor Party.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
But that wasn't a Liberal position when you crossed the floor. So why?
BEN SMALL MP:
That's right. It was a sensible amendment put up by our Nationals colleagues.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
Were you being cheeky?
BEN SMALL MP:
No, I think I was doing my job and that's representing my community.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
Andrew Hastie, he made clear his leadership ambitions. Does Angus Taylor need to do the same and stop all of this speculation?
BEN SMALL MP:
I think the speculation is unhelpful because it's robbing us of oxygen to hold the government to account. We've seen explosive revelations this morning of some $15 billion now of taxpayer money that's potentially been funnelled into underworld crime in Victoria through the CFMEU and its corruption. So these are the sorts of issues that are currently sitting on the back burner, and they deserve to be subject to a great deal of focus in this place. And while we have ongoing leadership speculation, that sort of issue is put to the side and that's unfortunate.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
So, should he make his intentions clear today?
BEN SMALL MP:
Yeah, I think that would be fair to say that we need to resolve this question, stop talking about internal matters and get back to holding the Labor Party to account.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
What's Sussan Ley done wrong to warrant a change in leader? Because clearly there are a number of Liberal MPs and Senators that think that's the case, otherwise you wouldn't be in here today talking to me.
BEN SMALL MP:
Yeah, that's right. And, I mean, I'm very clear in my thinking that he's not shaped by polls that come and go and whether you believe this one or that one. But, like I say, over many months, as a relatively newly elected MP in my own community, community, it was that sense of disappointment that we weren't hitting the mark. And, like I say before, there are a broad range of reasons as to why, but the leadership is important because it is the face of the party. Now, we may or may not be considering a change to that in the next period ahead
STEPHANIE BORYS:
Would you like to have that opportunity?
BEN SMALL MP:
Well, by virtue of the fact that I very publicly called for generational change within the Liberal Party and supported Andrew Hastie in his ambition to lead the party, of course it would be lying for me to say that I'm not supportive of change.
But I am very keen that change be much broader than just changing the salesperson at the front. We do need have, like I say, a clear policy position that resonates with the Australian community. And I think as the media markets become more fragmented, people's attention on politics has perhaps become, you know, harder to grab in the modern era of three-second TikToks and the like. We need to establish what we stand for much earlier in the cycle. I think the Labor Party, to their credit, did this very, very well, starting their campaign some six months out from polling day last time. And so, if we learn from those mistakes and we establish very clearly in the minds of middle Australia what we stand for, I think we've got all the chance in the world of being successful in our pursuit of government in this country.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
So how do you beat One Nation, given their support in the polls has been rising quite dramatically?
BEN SMALL MP:
I think we reclaim our own market share.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
How?
BEN SMALL MP:
The Liberal Party has a proud history, like I say, of standing up for things like home ownership. Robert Menzies talked of the importance of…
STEPHANIE BORYS:
You're not getting through to voters at the moment.
BEN SMALL MP:
Yeah, and I accept that. And that's, I guess, why MPs like myself are becoming frustrated, because we do believe in the power of homeownership. We do believe that family is a cornerstone of our society. And homeownership's inextricably linked with that. So it's up to us to do a better job of articulating that to Australians and we have to earn their support. You're not entitled to a vote in this country. So that's why we need to stand up for ourselves, reassert what we're about and I think that Australians will reward that with their support.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
Right, so a change in leader and a change in policy is what you're calling for. So with a change in leader, is that Angus Taylor?
BEN SMALL MP:
Look, when we have a contest...
STEPHANIE BORYS:
I mean, you backed Andrew Hastie when there wasn't technically a contest occurring,
BEN SMALL MP:
Yep.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
So… Angus Taylor?
BEN SMALL MP:
Look, if Angus Taylor puts his hand up as someone who has already expressed a need for the party to reassert its traditional values, pride and patriotism in Australia and a strong economy, then yes, I would be very open to supporting that.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
So, Ben Small backing Angus Taylor if he puts his hand up.
BEN SMALL MP:
I think that's a fair assumption. You read the tea leaves very well there.
STEPHANIE BORYS:
Thank you so much for joining Afternoon Briefing.
BEN SMALL MP:
Thanks Steph, Cheers.
ENDS